Licensing to Big Companies != Fun


Over the last few years, I was approached by several companies about  licensing the intellectual property (IP) of my Web site:

I wanted to share my experiences and some of the commonalities of:

  • Negotiation processes
  • Legal agreements and terms
  • Risks and rewards

Show me the money!

When you’re a pretty small company with only 1 or 2 employees, the idea of licensing your IP to a big company sounds great and exciting! It’s a validation of what you’ve done and your hard work. Plus, these big, public companies have deep pockets, right? Well, it turns out that licensing your IP can be a major headache. It’s also quite a different process from being a target of an acquisition.

I can’t name the specific companies that contacted me due to non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) that are about as severe as they get, but I can say that the companies are some of the biggest names in the education industry. There were definitely some consistencies in their negotiations.

What to Expect

1. The first thing that happens is that you are approached by a project manager (PM), who genuinely wants to get your product on board. This person identified you as a target for potential licensing. The PM, in my experience, is great to deal with. First, they like what you’re doing. Your opinion of them will probably always remain positive. This is because—it turns out—they don’t have anything to do with the nitty-gritty parts; legal or compensatory. If you and the PM can agree on some basic things like, “Yes, I will consider licensing my IP,” and “Yes, my IP can do what you want, and your big company will pay me something for all of this,” then you move on and talk to someone higher up the corporate food chain.

2. Typically, this is some vice president (VP) of a division who, in more than one case, seems to be primarily interested in getting your price down. You have to remember why these companies reached out to you in the first place—because they hope that it will be cheaper to license your code than to pay their own developers to create the same product. In one case, involving the biggest company I dealt with, the two PMs were open and honest. They had no sway over the licensing terms, only the VP did. If there’s one piece of advice I’d give on this step, it is:

Decide on the lowest amount of money you will accept. And, most importantly,  ensure that the other side is the first one to name its price.


There are really no downsides here. If the offer is too low, then the company probably would not have agreed to your lowest acceptable asking price; but, more likely than that, I found the opposite to be true. The company was willing to pay more than you might have considered. The only way to get a sense of the company’s price is if the company produces the first number. I assume that these business types already know this because they try to squirm out of giving an initial number. Your best answer to this is either:


You approached me, what number did you have in mind?


Obviously, this doesn’t work if you’ve been doing a lot of licensing, which eventually became true for me. The dilemma is: if you start doing a lot of licensing, then you will want to bring that up during initial negotiations to boost your credibility. So you need a different way to get the company to name its number. I used the following method:


Listen, I have different arrangements with different companies. No two are the same in any way. You guys approached me, so I’ll leave it to you to tell me what you want exactly and what you’re willing to pay.

This worked well for because we had different types of companies interested in disparate parts of the calculator. For instance, one test prep company only wanted the scientific calculator portion. Other education publishers wanted the graphing and scientific calculator. Another company that makes online math media only wanted the graphing calculator

Legal Agreement= Indentured Servant

If you can wrangle some satisfactory terms and everything is looking good, then just wait until the company sends you a 5-page legal agreement that basically makes you its indentured servant;) The biggest issue that I had with the licensing agreements is the necessity to provide the companies with unlimited indemnification. What that means, my lawyer explained to me, is that if the big company gets a lawsuit, however frivolous, and if that lawsuit somehow involves your product, then you’re stuck paying the company’s expensive legal fees for any and all things that relate to your product. You could be responsible for beaucoup bucks! That can be a pretty scary situation. You really need to pay attention to this part—maybe you already figured out why. People like to sue, and especially file lawsuits against companies with deep pockets. We live in a litigious time. It doesn’t matter if a lawsuit has any merit. But it does matter if you agree to foot the bill for all of the legal hours and manpower to help a big company defend itself from frivolous lawsuits. It doesn’t matter if your IP is solid and your software developers have implemented unique code. The fact is if you indemnify Big Company X, then you have to pay to help it defend any frivolous claims that involve your product. The problem stems from what I wrote at the top about big companies having deep pockets! Well, deep pockets can cut both ways.

Risks and Rewards

Ultimately, like everything, you have to weigh the risks and rewards. If your product has solid IP, then it’s very, very unlikely that you’ll have to worry about a lawsuit. On the other hand, nothing ever goes wrong until it goes wrong. Make sure that the amount of money you’re being offered is enough to offset the chance, however unlikely, of the worst case scenario—a lawsuit that somehow involves the IP you licensed out.



Sell to Autodesk, tempting but no

Not too long ago, I got the following email:

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[Note: I turned down this offer before signing a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). So unlike the licensing deals I have made, I am actually able to, I believe, show this email.]

I wasn’t exactly sure what the email meant, although I did have some inklings. Being as it was AutoDesk, I quickly got in touch with the author of the email message. Dina was very straight forward. In our first phone conversation, she said that AutoDesk wanted to “buy my company” —mainly due to our graphing calculator. It turns out that AutoDesk wanted to incorporate the calculator into its flagship product, AutoCad.

Cool, right? I mean, who hasn’t used AutoCad! What an awesome idea–a program that I know and have used, AutoCad, would include a button to pop up meta-calculator! Such were the first thoughts that swam through my inflated head.

My lawyer Booker, who has a lot of experience representing small companies negotiating with big ones, advised me to quickly be upfront about any non-negotiables in order to quickly identify any potential deal breakers. Well, a deal breaker did soon emerge. After a few more phone calls, I was told that I would need to be part of the purchase and work at AutoDesk. And, upon reflection, my head cleared. I realized that my idea of hitting a button in AutoCad and seeing meta-calculator was not realistic. Instead, meta-calculator would be wiped off the face of the Earth and replaced with AutoDeskCalculator!

The thing is, I didn’t have the calculator created simply for it to become a small widget in a larger product; no matter how big and impressive that could be. My vision for meta-calculator was to create an online student calculator that could be used as a replacement for the TI-89 graphing calculators that are a) very expensive and b) ubiquitous in schools. Why should students have to shell out $100 to get a quality calculator. You might be saying to yourself that there are lots of online graphing calculators. Well, that was not the case when I first had the calculator created. At that time, there were a few shoddy Flash apps; none that could graph implicit equations like meta-calculator. Though that has changed and other online calculators can now graph implicit equations. To my knowledge, there still is no other credible online replacement for the TI-86/Ti-85 handhelds except our own. Meta Calculator was and continues to be a resource for the needs of a typical high school or college student. As such, it can do the common types of formulas and calculations that these students need.

In the end, I just didn’t see myself being happy as AutoDesk’s “calculator widget guy.” It was clear that meta-calculator would be completely re-purposed. Even though it would be part of a large international product, the calculator would no longer have anything to do with  the original vision I had for it – to be a free online replacement for the monopoly of the TI hand calculators in schools.

Chart Making just Got Easier

Vern_4_image 1I’m happy to announce the launch of a new site, which is dedicated to creating graphs and charts. The new Web site,, is designed for students and teachers to choose the best way to represent their data—whether a pie chart, bar chart or other type of graph/chart.

Also, the META-CHART site includes the chart makers that were on the site. Now, that site’s popular chart making pages are a part of the META-CHART site. We are simply offering all of these great chart makers in one convenient place!

Here’s some of the types of charts and graphs you can create using META-CHART! Give it a try!

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AWS here we are!

You’d think that having traffic levels that require a dedicated server would be an unequivocally good thing, right?

Well, overall, yes, it’s good; however, you might be surprised to learn how complex the situation soon becomes, how many choices you have–do you want a managed dedicated server? Do you want an unmanaged dedicated server which means you’d need to hire a sys admin to manage it?

Well, when our traffic levels initially hit dedicated server levels, managed hosting seemed to be the  easiest solution. I mean–why not let your hosting company defend your sever against viruses and do all that other system admin stuff?  Well, after having used inmotion hosting’s managed dedicated servers for 1 year, I can tell you that  that there are some draw backs.  For instance, managed hosting accounts frequently restrict your ability to configure the server , often do not grant root access  or,i f they do grant root access, make you jump through all sorts of hoops , and managed hosting accounts do not give you control over who is doing sys admin work. The latter became critical when our traffic levels started getting too great for a single server–we were unable to tweak the server and do other optimizations . Even if the managed host provider is willing to configure the server, you have to wait in their queue for requests to be administered.

The first  9 months or so  went well at inmotion, but when our traffic levels started to be too much for 1 single server , it became clear that managed was no longer viable–another “good problem”.

More traffic is better, of course, but how do you go about setting up a load balancer? Where can you find a reliable sys admin? These were problems I had been blissfully unaware of.

All of these questions were eventually answered–we moved to AWS and after some trial and error with different server set ups (ngingx vs apache and load balancing), things started smoothing out.

AWS has a lot going for it–mainly in terms of its scalability and configurability. You can set up anything you want, configure it how you want. Scalabilty was huge since it’s become an annual problem for our sites that continue to grow–If traffic levels continue to increase as they have over the last 3 years, with AWS you can simply ‘scale up’ your instance! My hope is is that 2014 will be the first year that we won’t have any extensive down time due to excessive traffic overload .

So, what is the downside to AWS? Well, the ability to configure your server any way you want is due to the fact that AWS does nothing for you. They just provide a blank box. It’s up to install an OS, to set up a server, database, sftp server –no small task. Certainly not something that the layman (read : your humble author) can do. Trust me that you need an experienced, system admin who can set things up as well as manage the server, defend it against brute force DDOS etc..










Licensing Meta Calculator

Ever do something that was much more successful than you’d ever expect?

Well, I can certainly say that I have spearheaded lots of things that were not  all that successful, despite huge amounts of effort of my part– Even though I put my blood, sweat and tears and personal programming elbow grease into , the site never really took off; other ventures have been , serendipitously more fruitful.

For instance –Meta-Calculator–something that has spurred more than 1 company to consider buying us!  And over the last few months, several companies–from small start ups to some of the largest names in educational publishing — are now licensing the app.

So, the online app is in the process of being completely re-worked to facilitate licensing that purpose. It will soon be easy to configure the app and modify it to suit the needs of specific apps/sites. For more info, please go here.



thmathgames-saleWhat do you do when you have too many websites that take up too much of your time? Well, I decided to sell 1 or 2 of them including, a site that I put a lot of time into building up around 2008-2010 .

It was fun working on that site but the fact is is that the audience age level for that site does not match the age levels of our sites., and others target an audience that is , in general, older–usually substantially older.

So, what’s the best way to proceed selling your site? I first reached out to some fellow site owners who operate competing sites and found some interest. In fact, I have a decent offer from one of them. However, in the end, he was unable to commit to the sale . So enter Flippa!

Things are looking good at Flippa. I have been PM’ing a serious sounding buyer and it looks like I’ll be 1 domain shorter soon !